How to Perfect Your Pronunciation ♫ 38

This episode of the learned Spanish clone salsa podcast is brought to you by Yaba. Yaba provides language immersion through engaging videos for Spanish, English, Italian, French, German, and Chinese language learners. Yobbo features, authentic content by native speakers, custom playback, subtitles, learning games, and flashcards. Yaba is the premier language learning video platform with tools to enhance conversational understanding such as the patented dictation games. Scribe. If you haven't tried out scribe, I definitely recommend you check it out. It is a game changer when it comes to improving your listening comprehension and it's the perfect way to practice active listening stream authentic shows and music you enjoy while you learn at the same time. Give[inaudible] a try today using this special link,[inaudible] dot com slash salsa that's why a B L a.com forward slash South side

and Benito's. Welcome to the learn Spanish gone sunset podcast. The show for Spanish learners that love music, travel, and culture glows. Your grammar textbooks shutdown the language Habs and open your ears to house Spanish is spoken in the real world. Let us show you how to go from beginner to bilingual. Here is your host certified language Goetsch[inaudible] muddy

[inaudible]. Welcome to episode three[inaudible] the eight of the learn Spanish con salsa podcast. And this episode we're going to chat with Kyle Koosman from here. Listen, speak. Kyle has been learning languages through music and conversations for years and he also teaches multiple languages online. I had the opportunity to meet cowl at length Fest in Montreal back in 2018 where we both presented workshops on learning languages through music. Kyle has also been a presenter at the polyglot conference and he just has a wealth of knowledge about language learning and some great insights on how to make language learning fun. Kyle hopes to inspire as many people as possible to believe that everyone is capable of learning any language while having fun and doing things you love. So with that, here is the conversation with Kyle. Well that Kyle being Benito, welcome to the learned Spanish. So podcast.

Oh, the time that I could die. Happy to be here.

So Kyle, can you first start off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what languages you speak and just kind of how you got started learning languages in the first place?

Yeah, so I'm Kyle Esmond. Uh, I was born in around Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Um, Southeastern PA and I started languages. I, uh, my school, I was lucky enough to have German and French as of the first grade, but I only really got started learning seriously for real when I went on an exchange to Germany and 10th grade. Um, and there I was immersed in very challenged because I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't understand anything. 10 years of German class in school have failed me. Why can't I have the standard anyone saying around me? So I like desperately Googled after a month or so, I was getting really depressed about not being able to understand people there and really have a good conversation about what I wanted to talk about, you know. So I was like, okay, I'm just going to Google like how to actually learn to speak a language. And I stumbled across fluent in three months. Um, Benny Lewis's blog, which is a huge inspiration to me. So I took him very, very seriously and religiously. So I was like, alright, no more English. I cut out all the English from my life as like no more English shows, no more music. I hardly like communicated with friends and family back in the U S I um, started listening to like German music, my favorite band. But one of my favorite bands of all time is called the wise guys. Is this like five man German acappella group. Um, it's, I just listen to them like 24, seven, I watched how I met your mother dubbed in German instead of English. Um, and that's how I really got started. So after, after a really difficult first month there, um, I then after taking this vow of no English and really like fighting to speak German and um, really like going as hard as possible, I was able to get to a really good level after my next like four months there. And then that was such a really amazing and life changing experience for me that I was an inspired to learn Brazilian Portuguese because growing up, um, all of my best friends in the school had been Brazilians and I really liked them. So I was like, well, they've all moved back to Brazil somehow, all at the same time. So I guess I'll have to learn where she used to go visit them. So I took that on as like a, a senior project in high school. And after that I took a full gap year where I continued learning. I started on French and spent some time in France. I, um, had a lot of good Hungarian friends just thanks to a really lucky chance and a great trip to Hungary. So I decided I had to learn Hungarian as well. And did the, uh, the add one challenge, if anyone's heard of that. It's like a 90 day language challenge. Um, and I did that twice before going into Hungary and then spent more time. I just went back to Germany and back to Brazil in that year. So since then I've been working on those languages. Um, and just making sure that I can continue as much as possible. Um, I'm studying as many as I can, always continuing to learn and I go back whenever I can and I haven't really, I'm trying to go very deep into the languages that I speak. Spanish is my most recent one that I'm really working on hard. I don't want to learn like all of the languages. I mean, I would love to write wouldn't we all, I'd try the polyglot stream. It's actually, it's, I went to[inaudible] got to catch them all right. But instead of going, instead of, it's like traveling, like I don't want to country hop, I don't want to go to Europe for a month and like see all of the big capitals. I want to go somewhere for a month and do like a work away, like a work exchanger woofing and just live really like more deeply in one place and do like day trips, like slowly expand and get to know the area and the people and the language so that you're really a part of the community instead of just touristing and coming to stay for a week or like two days or something at a time. Um, yeah. So for now that's, that's where I'm at now. I've been made to ask you this, cause I know you've talked a little bit about, um, just wanting to get deeper into your languages and that's just sort of dabble in everything. And I'm curious to know about your experience at Middlebury college. I haven't met a few people that learn different languages there before. And I've heard the program can be pretty intense. It's really like an immersive experience even though it's in the U S so can you tell us where people that don't know, what is the language program at Middlebury and how has your experience been there? Yeah. So I'm at Middlebury college, which is in Northern Vermont, and they're really famous for the language schools, which are in the summer. And um, I actually haven't done one of those cause in the summer I'm generally traveling or studying abroad in a different country. So I take, uh, languages here just in the academic year, uh, in classes, which is pretty different than the language schools in the summer, which are just these, yeah. So in the U S on middle grays campus and Vermont and also they have a campus in Monterey, California. Um, and so they do like, I think it's a six week program where you sign up and then you get 24, seven, you signed this thing called a language pledge, which you makes it actually a crime to talk English. So wow. Yeah. If they catch you speaking English three times, they will kick you out. So it's, it's very, very intense. I'm very hardcore and I wouldn't recommend it for people who've never learned any of us or in language. I would recommend it more for people who are, have some land, some who maybe taken a year, two or three of language classes and are really looking to improve. If you don't want to actually go to the other country and have a really more academic, more intensive like you have I think maybe like four hours of class a day plus homework and tons of activities. Like they have everything from designing and building the set and putting on a whole opera performance in German to like soccer games and concerts and meals and all kinds of activities you can imagine. So trying to give you the full, full 24 seven immersion experience, but on a college campus in the U S okay. Interesting. Yeah, cause I've heard, um, so, so you're mentioning it's, it's more for people who have already had some language learning experience. Oh, you can enter with zero. Um, I just wouldn't recommend it. Having already had the experience of full immersion in, in Germany and then Brazil, Hungary, because that's really, really, really difficult. Like don't get me wrong, it's, it's crushing. Like it's one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but definitely the most valuable as well and the most rewarding but not for the faint of heart. And it, it is a lot of time and a lot of energy. It's just, it's just incredibly exhausting. I know they have some people who leave the language schools actually because they just burn out emotionally and they just can't handle it anymore. So they'll actually leave and go home and I have to talk to a counselor and English. So I appreciate what they do with the language pledge, but it's also very, very hard for sometimes it is good to have a break from full immersion, 24 seven you know? So it sounds like a basic training in the military for languages camp, right? Pretty much. Yeah. But I mean I have heard very good things. Like it's a really amazing experience you find with everyone you have, you learned so much in that time and you can basically go in and come out conversation. They flew in in six weeks, which is amazing, isn't it? But definitely like you need to commit fully for those weeks and give, like bring your whole self, all of your energy, all of your time. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well thanks for that perspective cause yeah, like, cause I haven't heard about it and I think the one person I know that, um, they actually told me about his experience at the program, he was learning Russian and he said the reason why he went is because he felt like he was at an intermediate level, but he was a little stuck and he was still making certain mistakes and um, so he said that he really appreciated it, but they did to me it was tough too. He said, you know, he was almost in tears, um, multiple times. Yeah. But it actually helped him overcome all the mistakes he was making in Russian. So he really was fortunate for it. But yeah, pretty intense. Yeah, for sure. If you're looking, yeah. If you're on the F the, the infamous plateau of the intermediate level. Right, right. Definitely helpful to push you over that bump and really through, um, especially a lot of people do it after taking like one Oh one level classes. They'll take the summer school, which skips them a full year of a language classes in college. So like a full 200 level of like full year. Um, and then you then you're qualified for the 300 level when you can study abroad sooner. So a lot of people do it for that reason. Yeah. Very cool. So, um, so let's switch gears a little bit. I want to talk about, I hear, listen, speak. Um, cause I know you're passionate about learning languages through conversations and also through music. I am, as you mentioned, when you were in Germany, you were listening to German music and I know you've done that with the other languages that you learned as well. Uh, so can you just talk a little bit about what motivated you to start here, listen to speak? Yeah, of course. So that's a funny story actually. I woke up in the middle of the night, uh, one time and I was like, I'm getting to the end of my college career. And so I know that I need to be looking for some kind of steady income sourced afterwards. Um, and I was like, huh. So I definitely, I want to start some kind of a language learning venture to help people learn with music because that's what's really what's, it's been so much fun and so effective for me in my life. And I was like, okay, so the first thing I need is a good name. I wonder, I wonder what I could call it. And I was kind of drifting in and out of sleep and then all of a sudden they came to me and I was like, I'll call it here, listen to speak. But here's spelled H, E, R, E, like, so it will be a pun. So it will be like memorable. And the point, the story behind that name is like you have to be, you have to be here, you have to show up and be present before you can really listen deeply to people. And, and at attentively so that you can truly begin to understand what they're saying. And only after you've completed those two steps in that order, are you really ready to start speaking well? So that's, that's my philosophy. Like if you really love a language and you want to learn it and talk to communicate with people to speak it and live in the traveler in that country, then yeah, you're really going to have to listen to a lot of it. You're going to have to hear things that you really enjoy. You're going to have to like dance long Bob your head along. Start singing along to your favorite music. Um, watch your favorite kind of like shows and podcasts, YouTube videos, anything that really like insights and expires you personally, that's what you really should be listening to in the language you want to learn. And the more of that you get, the more excited than fun it will be for you. The quicker you'll learn and the better you'll be able to speak afterwards. So that's why I started the site. Well, what kind of things can we find if we go to your website? What kind of content are you providing right now? Yeah, so for now the website's a little sparse because it's very busy this semester. Um, my Facebook page is a lot more active. So just add here, listen to speak, H. E, R, E. and so I'll share my personal learning process. So my favorite songs, recordings of me, like when I have the lyrics up and I'm learning to sing along so you can see exactly like what my screen looks like. I use this fantastic app called musics match, like music's with an X. um, that gives you automatically scroll the lyrics for like so many songs in so many languages, which connects with like Spotify, Apple music. Uh, so that's super helpful so that you can listen to it and hear and see the words at the same time. So I like to put out like little guides of how I, how I do that. Um, and how you can integrate that into your own life and your own language learning. Whenever I'm like learning a new song or a new language or practicing, sometimes I'll just put it up on like Facebook live so you can follow along and see what I'm doing. Yeah. I just try to kind of share my personal process so that everyone can see how that works for me and then work on and see how that could be integrated into their own language learning. So my next question is about, I'm actually learning pronunciation. So I found that many English speakers that are learning in Spanish or other languages, um, especially with Spanish, they have the false assumption that I'm just, cause the letters in English and Spanish look the same, that

they're actually pronounced the same. Yeah. Yeah. And it can be really difficult to learn the pronunciation of letters, especially when we think we already know how they're pronounced when we're reading in Spanish. So what's the best way to break that pattern and how have you found that learning languages through music really helps to improve pronunciation?

Yeah, really good question. So that's, that's a huge struggle for everyone when you're learning a language at the same alphabet and they use different letters for different sounds and some of the letters are totally silent and don't make any sense. And then people will talk really fast and it'll sound totally different. Like unlike anything you've ever heard, just this random jumble of foreign sounds coming at your ears super fast. Um, so for me what's really helped me is to really don't even read the words when you're starting to listen to music, like at the beginning you just like pop up. In Spotify it's like Spanish alternative Spanish pop, Spanish hip hop or like whatever your favorite genres happened to the tucked, like your friends. You can just Google it, like find some stuff that you enjoy and just start listening to it without really wondering or bothering how it's spelled because you don't, you don't need it. Like how did you learn your native language? Right? You just heard it all around you. Everyone spoke it, you, you heard it for years and then you started babbling. I think more people should like Gugu Gaga and therefore in languages because it's really helpful. Like I'll, I'll just walk around, I'll be in the shower, that'd be gonna be like, ah, I like trying to get these sounds perfect. Um, cause I want them to sound like the people I'm listening to, the people who are speaking to me. Um, yeah. So the, you can just enjoy letting the music and the sounds wash over you and just listened very attentively. Um, and then think like, huh, that sounds different. Like I wonder what, what are they doing with their tongue there? Cause it's a, it's a very exact science, you know, like if this sounds different or if it sounds off or if there's an accent or something's really hard to pronounce, you can figure out, like you can look it up. You can find guides online. There's something called the IPA, like the international phonetic alphabet. That's pretty helpful that you can see like, huh, wow. The sound when like American say like butter, that uh, it's not a, it's not a T or D you don't say about tr and you don't say bud dirt, you say butter. And that is the same sound as in the Spanish like[inaudible], like the Spanish are called, the tops are[inaudible] butter, Baird or butter. So there's, that's like a hidden, uh, sound that's the same in Spanish, but we just don't write it the same way in English. So it might seem like really challenging at first, but there are a lot of things like that. It can be like, Oh huh. So I actually, I actually can do that. They're rolling VR. I know a lot of people have trouble with and that's something that it's actually a very different sound than the little tops are. But you can get away with it by just saying the top art and everyone will understand you. Basically. Anything is better than the roof. Like the American road, right? Arrow. Yeah. So just remember that like, yeah, when you see an are in Spanish, think like double T or D in English, like better butter batter. It's really the same sound. So that's, that's when like huge revelation. And then, yeah, the more you can practice like listening and trying to repeat what you hear, um, the better you'll be able to train your ear and really tune into those sounds.

So would you say that, um, cause I know you, you're a musician, right? So I know you, I've seen you play guitar and I've also met, um, some other folks that I've interviewed on this podcast that learn languages, the music, and they are also musicians or vocalists. Uh, but what do you say for people like me who do not have a good singing voice, who are not musicians, um, you know, who may be, who may go to your Facebook and see you singing along and go, wow, that's really cool for Cal, but I can't sing. Um, and I don't know how to play the guitar. Right. Um, what would you say for those of us who are more, you know, music novices, um, for how we can approach it? Like, is it, is it something we should still try out even if we don't feel like we're confident in our musical abilities?

Oh yeah. Good question. I um, I think everyone should just do this for fun. If they enjoy music, like whenever you find a song you enjoy and you want to dance to it, you want to maybe sing along to it, just do it in the shower, do it in your car, do it when you're not around other people, you know, this is, this is for you. If you're not learning to perform, you're learning just to have fun and enjoy yourself. Like, yeah, I do. I do still most strum along and I sing along with my playing, but that's not really the motivation for me. The motivation is just really loving the music I hear and wanting to sing along. So, yeah, the most important thing is just like, this is for you. You're not, you're not doing this to be around people. Like you're not doing it to be in a beautiful, like perfectly trained opera singer. You're just doing it to enjoy jamming along with your favorite music. And another language. And just let that experience and let that fun help you to really work your mouth and your tongue and your, your lips around these new sounds that are different from the ones in your native language.

Yeah. And that's kind of, that was kind of my secret to like when I, um, because I don't have a great singing voice, but when I was in the car, Oh yeah, I'd be singing no one else's, nobody else can hear me. Um, and it actually did improve my pronunciation without me even recognizing it. Um, and I didn't notice until people would say to me like, Oh, where are you from? And I'd say, well, I'm from the U S they go, but nowhere is your family from[inaudible] say, well, from the U S they go, but okay, so, but you don't have no one in your family's like from Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico? No. They're like, but why do you have this accent? Cause you don't talk like an American. And I would always take that as a compliment. Yeah. But it didn't come from me studying the IPA or learning, you know, pronunciation secrets or anything. It literally just came from me listening to music that I loved singing along with my horrible singing voice when no one was watching. And you know, but it, but it is true. It just, it of naturally helps you. And I'm all for ways about learning that are natural and don't feel like.

Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's like my, my site's tagline. It's like language learning should be personal and natural and fun. Like if you're doing anything that feels like work or it feels like studying or schoolwork, just don't do it. Like if you don't enjoy what you're learning, if you don't enjoy the music or something, just change it up. Like find something new, find something that really excites and inspires you. Like you can make a new playlist, explore other people's playlist, leave it to the side, maybe come back later. But yeah, that's a really good point. Like none of us is really conscious. Like if you're really trying super hard, it might actually be hurting you because you're gonna be like stress. Like, Oh man, I did. Did I nail it yet? Like am I getting it perfect? But really you should just be kind of like jamming out and just allowing the lanes happen by having fun and trying to like practicing along with the favorite chorus of your favorite song.

Right. Definitely. And definitely I always recommend the course to, cause it has a lot of repetition. So you hear the words in the same sounds over and over again.

Oh yeah. Repetition and rhymes are my jam. Like they're the best way and the most fun way to learn any like any language, anything really. Like if you need to remember something, make that intro over Iman, start, start repeating it to yourself, put it, put it to a pizza that's abusive.

Okay. And uh, so switching gears a little bit now, I always like to ask us this question because like you talked about language learning is about, you know, being able to communicate with people not performing. And I really believe like getting over the fear of making mistakes or you know, saying the wrong thing is crucial to really getting better when you're learning the language. Yeah. And I think sometimes for listeners hearing about other people's experiences can really help them see that, you know, everyone goes through it and it's really part of the language learning journey. So with that said, can you tell us a story about your funniest or most embarrassing moment of learning languages, whether it's something funny you said or misunderstood

there? Far too many. Yeah, so probably the one that always comes to mind is this one time I was in Brazil, so I had just shown up in Brazil. I basically grew up with this Brazilian fan. Like in high school I lived at their house a lot of the time. You just like really good close friends and um, so they were really the inspiration for me to learn where she is. So I had been listening to a lot of Brazilian music, reading children's books, get like the audio with the Texas. Really great little audio books, just simple stuff. Just start out small and just rhymes, songs, poems, all that good stuff. And so I had been preparing and training my ear and like trying to build that kind of a fanatic Vic base like so I could at least be familiar with and know what, what know what it sounds like till I got to Brazil and I had been there maybe four or five days and I was very tired. I could, I was like, you know, in the full immersion I couldn't understand anything. I was just, I really, I was like, okay, well okay I need to tell, I need to really work on this. So my, my dad, my Brazilian dad Thomas asked me, he was, it's a Caio why is your tee shirt that we had kind of pink and I was like, and he said put[inaudible] and comedy's into his tee shirt. You also say companies that are coming and you come easy. If you're a Spanish speaker you'd be like, how maybe that means like a small shirt. Unfortunately it means condom. So like a little cute shirt is the same as condom. But let's say that the difference between these two words kind of Musica come museum. It's very small. It's like a two letter difference. So of course me and my exhausted state having just arrived in Brazil, I was like, yeah, call me Zia. And I told this whole story. It was probably, I struggled through for probably like five minutes long. I was like, so it was in Germany. I have my host families and uh, it used to be white, but then by German host, dad washed my white condom with a new red condom condom. And he just like looked at me with this strange expression just like cocking his head and he didn't stop me. He'd just let me, let me tell this story, repeating the wrong word again and again then and at the end I was like, Oh, that was the wrong word, wasn't that he laughed. It goes, yep, yes it was. So I'll never forget that and I will never get mixed up those two words. It can be embarrassing at first, but the now I can take it and I can use it as a joke. Like, I can intentionally say that to Brazilians and they'll be like, you know what you just said, right? I'm like, yeah, Christian man. I just said there was this one time, but let me, let me tell you how I learned the difference. Like when you make something like that on, that happens, try to try to take it and use it as then a positive, funny story for you to tell. And good learning experience experiences. Like, no, it's not every, it happens to everyone. It's, and it's always fun and it's always like, it's never a bad thing. And the more you laugh about it and this, the stranger and weirder it is, the more you'll never forget it. And the more you can learn.

Okay. So Kyle, now it's time for our quick fire round. So I'm going to ask you five questions and[inaudible] so, so help you practice your Spanish and don't sit by miss[inaudible] gone. Preguntar numeral[inaudible][inaudible] Rita and Espanol.

Where'd they see the[inaudible][inaudible] and that comes from we[inaudible] so yeah, my back[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible] we battle a man put to the guests and[inaudible] and stuff. They didn't[inaudible] me get that[inaudible] you know, no go more[inaudible] in the[inaudible] of it.

Yeah. At the end of[inaudible]. [inaudible] is[inaudible]

SABIC called this your tongue in, in Espanola.[inaudible] traveling. Traveling, traveling was[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible] uh,[inaudible] uh,[inaudible] uh,[inaudible] in the Spaniard. Narcos, Mexico of Nueva idolize. Go by Stacey[inaudible][inaudible] in[inaudible]. Okay. Second to telefono E[inaudible] gave when he, Perseus[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible][inaudible] where this this year, last year[inaudible] or quite[inaudible] hit the math. If you sit in the[inaudible][inaudible][inaudible] the in English. Nice.[inaudible] man. Lucas, ya[inaudible] Bassett come in.[inaudible] premier said the ultra with[inaudible]. [inaudible] this will be the[inaudible] is[inaudible]. We differentiated, they were charter. Can estas Como[inaudible] in[inaudible]. [inaudible] is the, the[inaudible] gaseous Kyle. Thank you. It's the paint and the quick fire round. So as we wrap up, I do you have anything coming up that you want to let everyone know about and let folks know how they can reach out to you on social media? Oh yeah. So I'm on Facebook. I'm just at here, listen to speak again. H, E R E and then you can find me on like Instagram app, Caio cousin and less K. U. Z. M. a. N. that's my, that's my last name. I also teach lessons. So I teach'em like any of the languages I speak. My best language is still German. So you can find a lesson opportunities and if you want to have like private, like one-on-one Skype lessons with me. Um, so you can just shoot me an email there. Yeah, so German, English, Spanish, French, Portuguese, even some basic Hungarian, which I think is a very, very beautiful and underappreciated language, very logic on. It's one of my favorites. So. Very cool. All right, so with that, a cow want to thank you for taking the time to join us on to learn Spanish a podcast.

Thanks so much for inviting me. Good to be here and talk to you. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Kyle and that you really are inspired to learn Spanish using content that you enjoy. My goal with interviews like this is to inspire you so that no matter where you are in your language learning journey, you remember that it is possible for you to reach fluency. My number one take away from Kyle was how important it is to really have fun while you're learning languages, not to take yourself so seriously. And also I like his emphasis on paying attention to the sounds that you hear and not necessarily the letters that you see because sometimes reading leads to pronunciation errors when we're not exactly sure how the sounds of the language that we're learning, uh, should sound right. So, um, I really like his emphasis on listening and paying attention to the sounds. And don't forget if you want to find some content that's fun and interesting for Spanish language learners like you, uh, you can find anything from TV series to music to travel videos and more on the site. Yaba. So check out[inaudible] dot com forward slash salsa to try out the service for free. That's why a B L a.com forward slash. Salsa. So that's it for this episode of the podcast. Next week I will be interviewing Andrea Algera from Spanish land school and we'll be talking about three things you need to do if you really want to get to the next level with your Spanish. So if you're at that infamous intermediate plateau and you want to get to the advanced level with your Spanish, or if you're stuck at the beginner level and you want to get firmly into the intermediate level of Spanish, you won't want to miss this next episode. So make sure you hit the subscribe button. So you'll be the first to know when the next episode of the podcast is available.[inaudible] as always, I hope something you heard today will take you one step closer on your journey from Spanish beginner to bilingual K thing i s w hen W endy Dios.

Thank you for listening to the learn Spanish gone SAMHSA podcast at learn Spanish. Go to[inaudible] dot com.